On 4th August 2025, Malaysian Actuarial Student Association (MASA)’s Executive Committees had the honour of meeting the President of Actuaries Institute, Win- Li Toh as well as CEO Elayne Grace in person. Both leaders were in Kuala Lumpur as part of their Presidential Tour across Asia, aimed at engaging actuarial professionals on current issues in the industry, with a focus on the evolving role of actuaries in serving the community. Despite a busy agenda, Win-Li and Elayne made time to connect with the MASA leadership team, reflecting the Institute’s commitment to engaging with the next generation of actuaries.

 

To make the most of this opportunity, the conversation with Win-Li and Elayne was structured into three parts. It began with their personal journeys, before moving on to the roles and relevance of the Actuaries Institute in shaping the profession today. The discussion concluded with advice and encouragement for students and young actuaries at the start of their careers.

 

The conversation opened with introductions, as both Win-Li and Elayne shared more about their current roles and responsibilities. ​

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Q1: Could you briefly introduce yourself and share a bit about your roles as the President / Chief Executive of the Actuaries Institute?

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Win-Li: I am actually a Malaysian; I was born and raised here in Malaysia. I went to Methodist Girls’ School (MGS) in Ipoh. I’ve always had a love for maths, and my parents and teachers were supportive of that. I later went to Oxford University to study Mathematics for my bachelor’s degree. After this, I met some actuaries in a careers’ fair in London, and found them to be charismatic and their job sounded interesting, so that’s how my actuarial journey began. I have since travelled the world and ended up in Australia and New Zealand. Though, I still have family in Malaysia.

 

As the President for Actuaries Institute, I chair the board that governs the Institute, as well as setting the vision and strategy for the Institute. I also act as ambassador for actuaries, and the value that they bring to society.

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Elayne: As CEO, I lead the Institute’s executive team, which has around 40 staff members and works closely with more than 700 volunteers. Together, we advance the profession through initiatives that deliver value to members and also serve the public good. My role involves liaising with government, industry bodies, and other stakeholders to ensure the profession has a strong voice. Guided by the vision and strategy set by our Board, the Institute focuses on four key areas: helping shape society and building the brand of actuaries, supporting qualification and lifelong learning, seizing new opportunities for the profession, and creating value for our members.

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The discussion then turned to their leadership journeys.

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Q2: What motivated you to take on a leadership role in the Institute? Could you share a bit about your journey to becoming the President / Chief Executive?

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Win-Li: I’m actually very excited that all of you (referring to MASA EXCOs) have volunteered for MASA, because some years ago (just before COVID-19), I thought to myself that really I should volunteer and give back to this profession that has given me so much. So, I put my hand up for the General Insurance Practice Committee. And within the short time of joining the committee, I enjoyed the experience so much that they (the committee) asked if I wanted to be the convenor. I said yes to that and next minute, I was so caught up in the excitement of volunteering with my fellow actuaries that I said yes to “Would you like to join this working group?” or “Would you like to join this networking group and conference committee?” and later on “Why don’t you join the Council?”, which is the board for Actuaries Institute, so I put my hands up for it and got voted in by the members, and here I find myself two years later as the President!

 

I think volunteering has given me many fold what I put in. That is also why I am very happy that from a very young age all of you (referring to MASA EXCOs) are volunteering for the society. It is something really encouraging.

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Elayne: Prior to being Chief Executive, I was the Head of Public Policy I really enjoyed the thought leadership and the ability for actuaries to assist in big societal issues. Then, the CEO role came up and I went for the opportunity and thought that this is an even broader area of influence right across the education and qualification as well as lifelong learning, so I seized the job. Similar to Win-Li, often it is not that you will think “Oh, in ten- or twenty-years’ time, I want to do this”. Sometimes you just drift into it by pursuing areas of interest. It’s important to say yes, seize the opportunities.

 

I was the CEO during COVID-19 times, and that was an important time to realise that actually there is no ‘right’ way, and you have got to just trust your instincts. During that time I realised that my leadership style, in terms of supporting our members and staff is actually the most important consideration, whereas sometimes before I had thoughts whether I should act another way or do this the other way. I think sometimes when you have those challenges and you come through it, you trust your instincts more, which is reassuring.

 

Both leaders also reflected on the beginnings of their actuarial careers

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Q3: What initially inspired you to pursue actuarial science? Was there a moment that made things “click” for you?

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Win-Li: I love mathematics, problem solving and people. So, this was a really good combination of my passions, encapsulated in one profession. But I actually hadn’t heard of the actuarial profession until I finished my bachelor’s degree. I met two actuaries during a careers fair, and they were very charismatic women. I thought that they were very inspiring and doing very exciting things. I thought that this was what I wanted to do, and I applied for an actuarial job with my mathematics degree, and fortunately I got the job.

 

A moment that made things ‘click’ for me, I feel like you never quite get there. Each year, you will think that “I am going to be the perfect actuary,” but I think you never get there. You are always learning, you will always have the sense of never being quite good enough or being the best. So, in my opinion that drive is what makes you a good actuary, the perpetual desire of wanting to be better.

 

Elayne: I like mathematics as well. I was curious and liked to ask questions. I also think there’s definitely a stereotype of it being hard, and I wanted to prove it to myself. What made it ‘click’ for me is realising that the skills can be used in so many different areas which is wonderful.

 

When you are young, you nearly don’t worry about that. You are just looking for a job to advance in your career. Take being a doctor as an example, and you specialise in the digestive system. You’d be working on that same thing for forty years ahead. Whereas the great thing about being an actuary is, you have so many different options. You can work across all the different areas. Head of products, CFO (Chief Financial Officer) , CRO (Chief Risk Officer), or you can even move to other industries. It does give you a lot of variety and you can use your skills to help the society and companies.

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Q4: What was your first job in the actuarial field like? Was it what you expected?

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Win-Li: My first job was in consulting, and I am still in consulting. I thoroughly enjoy consulting, but my first task was very surprising. If you’ve heard of this, Robert Maxwell was a very well-known newspaper baron, and he had a big superannuation fund (pension fund), and he fell off a yacht and passed away. From there, it was discovered that there was a big fraud, and a lot of the pension money had actually been stolen. So, I joined the consulting firm just as that happened, and the firm was engaged to manage the outcome of the fraud. And so, I was put in the position of not only trying to determine what funds were left and how much the pensioners would get, but I was also in the position to talk to some these people.

 

What was very surprising, I had thought that I was going to an environment which consists mainly of numbers, and maybe a little bit of talking to people. But, talking to people right at the beginning brought home to me that actuarial work is not just about numbers. There is a human element to it. So, right at the beginning, although I was a bit surprised, it made the profession come alive for me.

 

Elayne: For me, I worked in general insurance, in pricing for commercial companies. It was interesting understanding how a hairdresser may get charged a different premium to a hardware technician. It was great to use spreadsheets, understand  monthly or quarterly reporting requirements.

 

The conversation naturally moved toward challenges and milestones.

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Q5: Can you share a moment in your career where things didn’t go as planned and how you handled it?

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Win-Li: It’s not so much a moment, since as actuaries, it is the nature of our professions to plan ahead. But things don’t always go to plan. In fact, they often don’t go as planned. You really have to be flexible and roll with the punches. In terms of where things don’t go as planned, sometimes we do make mistakes in what we do. And for me, the important thing is to be completely upfront when you make a mistake, and don’t try to hide it. Just be upfront, and go “Look, I’ve made a mistake, and this is the repercussions”. I think that actually builds trust. People hate to admit to having made a mistake, but it is better to be honest as it is part of the ethos of being professional.

 

Elayne: I was in an expert panel, and they were trying to determine how to invest money for a particular community of Australia. I was the only actuary in the panel, and a lot of the others were more ‘gung-ho’ investment people. Unfortunately, the investment pool were restricted to fixed interest, but because it was a low interest environment they were getting low returns. Initially this group wanted to move all the investments to shares. I was very cautious given the impact if there was a big stock market crash. But I knew as an actuary I needed to speak up and raise my concerns even if it felt like I was going against a majority of really experienced people. The good thing about being actuary is that we are very evidence based, we look at the evidence and speak to the evidence. You can’t be negative or always the problem caller, but sometimes you need to know where you have to speak up. Thankfully when I raised the issue others had also done some background analysis and agreed with my perspective.

 

Q6: What about a moment in your career that made you feel especially proud of being an actuary?

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Win-Li: I actually find this question difficult to answer. There isn’t really one moment, we make decisions every day and I think it’s really good that we are in a profession that has such deep ethical roots, and that you make decisions that are based on the right thing rather than the things that benefits you more commercially. So, that is something that makes me very proud.

 

At a personal level, I was very proud when as an actuary, I was given the Insurance Leader of The Year in Australia, because previous winners were CEOs from big insurance companies and so on. That’s because of my contribution to the community, including work in cyber risk. The team and I put a lot of work into helping Australian society understand cyber risk and the role of insurance when it was very new three years ago.

 

Additionally, I was very pleased that my mother managed to share that moment as she passed away this year. All of us want to please our parents, but in the Asian culture, it’s very important how our families feel about our careers.

 

Elayne: For me, I worked on areas of climate change around twenty-five years ago because I felt passionate and thought that we as Actuaries needed to be thinking more about it. And that, gave me my love for public policy. But now, the moment I think I’m most proud of as the CEO is that I enabled a platform for many actuaries to talk about how they can try and improve societal outcomes..

 

People who work in particular fields will write articulate papers, dialogue papers and speak to the government or journalists about their work. So, this platform helps amplify the worth and the message of the profession. This platform also serves as a support for them, because it’s difficult to go out of your comfort zone, and you might need a little bit of encouragement, or even training for things like media training before speaking to the public.

 

After sharing their personal journeys, the discussion shifted towards the roles and relevance of the Actuaries Institute, particularly for students who may not yet be familiar with the breadth of its work.

 

Q1: Many students may only know the Actuaries Institute as the body that administers exams. Could you help us understand what the Institute actually does beyond that?

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Elayne: The Actuaries Institute is a professional body, and we do qualification exams and then you’ve got your whole career ahead of you. So, what we do is we provide lifelong learning over your whole career, we provide a community of professionals that you can learn with and help to contribute to society and companies.

 

We run major events like seminars; we also run regular events like INSIGHTS and free events. We also write a lot to government submissions on certain issues. We have working parties developing research on certain areas. So, it really is not just the qualification, but the lifelong learning aspect and contributing to the current issues happening and responding to government and companies on those issues. But most importantly, creating this wonderful community of people. If we know somebody’s going through a difficult issue at work, we provide a confidential service where they can speak to like, the past president, and ask for their wisdom. We really created a community for life, of like-minded people.

 

This naturally led to a question about the Institute’s reach and responsibilities.

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Q2: Who does the Actuaries Institute serve? Is it just for Australian actuaries, or is it global too? Can you walk us through some of the Institute’s key responsibilities?

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Elayne: The Actuaries Institute as a profession serves the public interest. It is there for all our members, the majority are based in Australia but there are also a lot overseas. We serve actuaries who’ve come through our qualification system. Twenty percent of our members are based overseas, mainly in Asia but also elsewhere in the world. Most of our material is accessible online and can be accessed virtually. To walk through some of the responsibilities; qualification education, lifelong learning, and events. We have practice committees, disciplinary schemes, professional guidance committees, as well as working groups.

 

The EXCOs were also keen to learn how the Institute supports those at the beginning of their actuarial journey.

 

Q3: What kind of initiatives does the Actuaries Institute have in place to support actuarial students and fresh graduates?

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Elayne: We have a student mobile app, Actuarial Sprint, where you can access information from. We also support some of the actuarial student associations. We have a program called Young Actuaries Advisory Board (YAAB), an initiative started by one of the past presidents to really hear the voices of younger people and what they are looking for, and to ensure that that’s fed back to the Council. We have policy, events, education and all sort of things that are required to support younger people as they moved through the profession and their career. For Young Actuaries Program (YAP), they run events just for young people like Young Actuaries Conference every year, and that is a good lifelong learning event for both your career and also about subjects happening in the world.

 

Other YAP programmes are more about creating a professional community, where you can network with other people. It is important to create bonds with people. For example, coming back from maternity leave, if you have a great network of people they can update you and support you about the current situation in the industry. And then for professional difficulties, it’s important to have a community of trusted people who can help you out. Half of the Actuaries Institute’s memberships are aged below thirty-five, which when reflecting on 127 years of Actuaries Institute being established, the Institute can be considered young.

 

Finally, the conversation broadened to the profession’s future relevance in a fast-changing world.

 

Q4: How does the Actuaries Institute stay relevant in today’s evolving landscape, especially with Artificial Intelligence (AI), data science, climate change and ESG becoming hot topics?

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Elayne: We have some actuaries who are pioneers in these topics. It’s the Institute’s job to promote them and to write thought leadership papers on the topic so people realise that actuaries can help and assist. The Institute also provides education to all our members, writing articles and putting on events.

 

Win-Li: The important thing is not to just look at these issues, but actually to build a community and make connections. For example, the Actuaries Institute has a lot of connections with scientific organisations, research bodies, external bodies, climate scientists, government regulators and all sorts of different expert bodies. We don’t claim to know everything, instead we are people who understand risk. We understand how to connect the dots, to take different perspectives and stitch them together into a pragmatic solution.

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The final part of the conversation turned to advice for students and young actuaries preparing to enter the profession. Drawing on their own experiences, Win-Li and Elayne offered candid reflections on challenges, skills and the mindset needed to thrive in the actuarial field.

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Q1: Based on your experience, what are the common challenges or gaps fresh graduates face when entering the actuarial job market?

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Win-Li: I guess the first thing for me is that you have limited actual working experience, so you need employers who are willing to train you. But also, you have to show that you are willing to learn and contribute. Some of the technical skills like Excel, if you already have those, it does help. Being a team player, being someone’s who is interested in life, and have other interests other than just studying all the time is also important.

 

Elayne: The thing you need to do is to really show your personality in the interview. It could be very easy to show your qualifications on papers, but on paper, everyone looks amazing. Sometimes, when you go for an interview, you’re not as confident as you probably should be, but you should put yourself out there, because you have a lot to offer. So, I think that’s one of the common challenges. Don’t be afraid to sell yourself, but attitude is also really important where they are always willing to learn and are respectful.

 

From challenges, the discussion moved to skills, especially those that extend beyond the technical exam requirements.

 

Q2: Aside from passing exams, what essential skills do you think are often overlooked but crucial for career growth?

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Win-Li: I think being genuine and being yourself, not trying to be someone else. People want to know the real you. Being willing to try new things. Never be afraid to try new things and fresh challenges. As I also mentioned, being a team player. Work is not always interesting all the time; you don’t want to grab everything that’s only of your interest. You need to be willing to sometimes put in the effort for things that are less interesting than other jobs, if it’s helpful to the team, then people will think that you are the kind of person they want to work with.

 

The leaders also shared practical guidance for students about beginning their first jobs.

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Q3: What’s one practical tip you would give to someone starting their first actuarial job?

 

Win-Li: Be curious to learn, be proactive in helping others, be a good team player. And the one thing that I always say is, say ‘Thank You’ to people who help you along the way. Don’t take them for granted. If someone’s helped you, make an effort to say to them, or email them, thank you. It makes a difference to people.

 

Elayne: Put your hands up for things, be involved. Also be accountable and really sign off  your work, don’t do half a job. Make sure that if it was featured on the front of the newspaper, you’d be proud of it. Make sure that when you hand it to your manager, you are proud to know that you’ve done your best on this piece. But having said that, don’t be too much of a perfectionist until it slows you down. There is always a balance to it.

 

To make the advice more memorable, Win-Li and Elayne spoke about their own motivations at this stage of their careers.

 

Q4: At this stage of your career, what keeps you motivated?

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Win-Li: For young people like you (referring to MASA EXCOs), there are so many issues ongoing in the world right now. So, open your eyes and be aware of what is going on around you. And certain things will just grab your passion. When I started on the cyber research a few years ago, I had very limited knowledge of the topic. But it interested me, and I wanted to pursue this a little bit further. Once I promised the Institute that I was going to do that research, I was going to see it through.

 

The research itself was really quite agonising, as the world kept changing. But I felt a great sense of achievement on completing the research. Having said this, I’m still building on this work.

 

The world is changing, and you have to change with it. Once you stand still, you kind of lose your sharpness. As I said, you never quite get there. Sometimes it’s not good for you to feel that way, but for me, it’s actually good motivation to keep learning.

 

Elayne: I take a strong interest in what’s going on in the world. Unfortunately there are many problems and I’m always interested in, just in terms of fairness, how do you make sure the society works better? How do we make sure we protect the environment? How do we look after people to create the most functional society? And I think it’s too easy for people to think that someone else is going to fix it, but it’s actually up to every single one of us to contribute in our small ways. So, I’m just always curious.

 

The session closed on a reflective note, as Win-Li and Elayne were asked to condense their career wisdom into a short takeaway.

 

Q5: If you had 30 seconds to give career advice to actuarial students in Malaysia, what would you say?

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Win-Li: Enjoy the journey. There’s a lot of anxiety that can go in perpetually trying to get ahead, that you forget what attracted you to this profession in the first place. So, everything you do, even moments that are tough or times that might seem boring, it teaches you something when you reflect back on it. So, I would say, enjoy the journey.

 

Elayne: These days, for young people, there’s a lot of pressure to feel like you’re supposed to know what you’re going to be doing in five, ten and fifteen years ahead. So, there’s this pressure of “that person is doing something and I’m not going fast enough”, but you know, it’s a long journey. Just enjoy, and try to be grounded and content, and enjoy it for what it is. Don’t give yourself too much pressure, you’ll do fine.

 

The conversation with Win-Li and Elayne offered valuable insights, not only into their personal journeys and the work of the Actuaries Institute, but also into the qualities that make actuaries trusted advisers in an increasingly complex world. Their reflections on resilience, continuous learning and the importance of collaboration resonated strongly with the MASA EXCOs, serving as both inspiration and guidance for students preparing to enter the profession. The Malaysian Actuarial Student Association extends its heartfelt gratitude to Win- Li and Elayne for taking the time to connect during their Presidential Tour, and for their commitment to nurturing the next generation of actuaries.